Subj:	TRAVELLER digest 288
Date:	95-05-17 19:24:09 EDT
From:	traveller@mpgn.com
To:	traveller@mpgn.com

From: traveller@mpgn.com
Sender: traveller@mpgn.com
Reply-to: traveller@mpgn.com
To: traveller@mpgn.com (Multiple recipients of list)
			    TRAVELLER Digest 288

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Ship crew
	by Zaidfeld <cs911408@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca>
  2) Meson rifles
	by Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
  3) Interstel I-1102 Solomani Scout (100t, TL 14)
	by pd82495@wapol.gov.au (Michael Bailey)
  4) Gravity Fatigue..
	by Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>
  5) Re: TRAVELLER digest 287
	by adou01@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Andrew Richard  Doull)
  6) Re: Meson rifles
	by "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
  7) Military Generation / Path of Tears
	by pd82495@wapol.gov.au (Michael Bailey)
  8) DC-X First New Flight Succe
	by "KMCCARTHY" <KMCCARTHY@QMGATE.OSC.HQ.NASA.GOV>
  9) Re: Gravity Fatigue.. 
	by "C. Harald Koch" <harald@enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca>
 10) Solomani Rim?
	by Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
 11) Re: Military Generation / Path of Tears
	by John Bindas <jbindas@u.washington.edu>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 19:14:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Zaidfeld <cs911408@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca>
To: TNE Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: Ship crew
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950516191309.3129A-100000@blue>


On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Hugh Foster wrote:

> I have (surprise) a program which details crew for a ship a 
> la Leviathan & Kinunir. I'll put one with my next upload.

Did you upload the program yet?  I am very intersted in seeing it.  
Please let me (and anyone else on the list know) when and if you do.

Thanks,

           -Shalom Zaidfeld
----
Toronto, CANADA
Internet: cs911408@ariel.cs.yorku.ca
 
"Ground Control to Major Tom, your circuit's dead, there's something wrong"
        ...David Bowie on the Virus [Michael Bailey]
	

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 16:33:29 -0700
From: Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Meson rifles
Message-ID: <fb936880@MailXFER.DMCWAVE.COM>

     >>The meson rifle is a very small (1m tunnel length) shoulder mounted 
     meson gun. 
     Even this length gives it an effective range of 1000km!
     
     Weapon      ROF      DamVal      Mag     Range
     Meson Rifle 1        2-2-2-2     15      3000m
     
     This probably would have little effect on vehicles, but the effect on 
     the crew 
     inside would probably be more significant. Does anyone have any ideas 
     as to what 
     
     sort of effect this might have on personnel? Should the number of 
     damage dice be 
     
     greater than the damage value (as for lasers)? I can't find any 
     references to 
     meson guns being used in versions this small and there may be a good 
     reason, but 
     
     the possibility of an Intrepid Grav Tank being neutralised by a sniper 
     seems 
     interesting.
     
     I'm not completely sure if this would work at all. I've no idea what 
     the recoil 
     would be like, whether there'd be a need for radiation shielding, 
     etc.<<
     
     
     Did you use FUSION, FIRE & STEEL to design it?
     
     --Chris

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 08:46:02 -1600
From: pd82495@wapol.gov.au (Michael Bailey)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Cc: lewis@chara.gsu.edu, cs911408@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca,
Subject: Interstel I-1102 Solomani Scout (100t, TL 14)
Message-ID: <9505170045.AA02230@phq1002.wapol.gov.au>

General Data

Displacement:           100 tons        Hull Armor:     56
Length:                 21 m            Volume:         1400 m^3
Price:                  MCr 69.102      Target Size:    S
Configuration:          Dome/Disk AF    Tech Level:     14
Mass (loaded/empty):    1321.41 / 1112.11

Engineering Data

Power Plant:            160 MW Fusion Power Plant (160 MW/hit), 1 year dur.
(16 kl/yr)
Jump Performance:       2 (210 m^3 fuel)
G-Rating:               2G (50 MW/G), Contra-Grav lifters (10 MW)
G-Turns:                58 (89 using jump fuel), 8 m^3 of fuel each
Maint:                  26

Electronics

Computer:               3 x TL-14 Mod St Computers (1.5 MW each)
Commo:                  1 x 300,000km radio (10 hexes, 10 MW), 1 x 1000 AU
maser
                        (inf, 0.6 MW)
Avionics:               TL-10+ Avionics
Sensors:                Passive EMS 150,000km folding array (5 hexes; 0.15
MW),
                        Active EMS 300,000km (DF capable, 10 hexes, 15.0 MW)
                        TL 14 Densitometer (0.5 MW)
                        TL 14 Neutrino Sensor
ECM/ECCM:               EM Masking (1.4 MW)
Controls:               Bridge with 4 workstations, 2 other workstations

Armament

Offensive:              1 x TL-14 Laser Turret (Loc 10 Arc 1,2,3,4,5)

Defensive:              

Master Fire Directors:  1 x TL-14 Missile/Beam MFD (6 diff mods) Mis; 10
hexes; 
                        10 hexes

TL-14 150-Mj Laser Turret 

Accomodations

Life Support:           Extended (0.28 MW), Grav Compensators (5G, 7 MW)
Crew:                   6 (1 x Eng, 1 x Elec, 2 x Maneuv, 1 x Gun, 1 x
Command)
Crew Accomodation:      3 x Large Staterooms (single occupancy, 0.010 MW)
Passenger Accomodation: 2 x Large Staterooms (single/double occupancy, 0.010
MW)
Cargo:                  63 m^3, with 1 large cargo hatch
Small Craft:            Air/raft can be carried in cargo bay
Air Locks:              1

Notes:                  Fuel Scoop, purification machinery (1.38 MW), 
                        12.87 hours to refine 705 m^3

Damage Tables

Surface

1:              1-3 Radio, 4-5 AEMS, 6-10 PEMS, 11-16 EMM
2-3:            Radio
4-5:            1-11 Densitometer
6:              1-6 PEMS
7:              1-6 PEMS, 7 Airlock
16:             1-10 Cargo Hatch

Intermal

1:              1-14 Elec, 15-20 Qtrs
2-3:            1-4 Elec, 5-20 Qtrs
4-5, 8-9, 11,
14-19:          Hold
6-7:            Qtrs
10:             1-12: Laser, 13-20 Qtrs
12-13:          1-3 Qtrs, 4-20 Eng
20:             Eng

Systems

Computer        2h
Densitometer    2h
PEMS            2h
LSR             1H
LS              1H
ELS             1H
AG              1H
JD              1H
PP              1H
MD              2h
CG              1H
FPP             1H
All Others      1h

Notes:

The Interstel I-1102 was a ubiquitous design throughout the Solomani
Confederation and adjoining areas, serving much the same purpose as the
Imperial Type S Scout/Courier.  The I-1102 is an evolutionary design,
building on the TL-13 I-1101 and the TL-12 I-1100. The current version of
the venerable Solomani Scout entered service shortly after the Solomani
Patriotic War (Solomani Rim War), gradually replacing the I-1101 in active
service over the next century.  The craft is also popular with private
organisations, particularly corporations seeking an inexpensive courier /
executive transport.

The I-1102 was produced in huge numbers by the Solomani Confederation, and
saw extensive service during the Retribution War (2nd Rim War / Solomani
Invasion) from 1117.  This ship, and the 'Victrix' class multipurpose sloop
are by far the most common relic ships to be found in the New Era, the sheer
numbers produced ensuring the survival of some ships following the Collapse.

The Near Bootes Commonwealth operates a number of these craft - their high
tech communications and sensor equipment are prized by planetary and
Commonwealth organisations alike.  The Solomani Scout is the vessel most
likely to be encountered beyond the Commonwealth's borders, operated by the
CEF.

Stauffenburg und Warne, a small shipbuilder on Aquitaine, plans to restart
production of the I-1102, using TL-12 equipment where needed.  The first
example was laid down on 057-1102, and is expected to be completed by year's
end.


Michael Bailey (pd82495@wapol.gov.au)

"...you mad-dog, shaven head, bottle boy freaks..."
                                      Marillion, "Berlin"



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 22:30:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Gravity Fatigue..
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950516221535.17957A-100000@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>


Notes on how Gravity weakens characters, depending on homeworld
 (So choose your birthworld wisely...)

Assuming Standard Density...


>From         Size of World Being Visited...
World
Size   G's     0  1  2  3  4   5  6  7  8  9  A
0      0       -  2  3  4  5  6  8  9  10 11 13
1     .15      -  -  1  2  3  4  6  7  8  9  11
2     .25      -  -  -  2  3  4  6  7  8  9  11
3     .4       -  -  -  -  1  2  4  5  6  7  9
4     .5       -  -  -  -  -  1  3  4  5  6  8
5     .6       -  -  -  -  -  -  2  3  4  5  7
6     .8       -  -  -  -  -  -  -  1  2  3  5
7     .9       -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  1  2  4
8    1.0       -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  1  3
9    1.1       -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  2
A    1.3       -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -

The numbers list how much EACH attribute is reduced when a world is being 
visited.  For Example a guy from a size 3 world visiting a size 8 
worrld has his attributes reduced by 6: if any of his attrubutes reach 0
he's unconsious.

Rules of thumb: - Don't visit worlds more than 4 sized over your homeworld
                - Size 6+ people can visit most places without too much loss
                - Watch out for higher-than avg density worlds!

(Also: See TNE p. 199.) 



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alvin Plummer
"The point has often been raised, by those cynical enough to question 
what is going behind the scences, just why *are* those green-skinned 
aliens, or those clawed, scaly sub-reptinians, trying so hard to get the 
woman?  What are they going to do with her - eat her?"

Reply to: alvin.plummer@SHERIDANC.ON.CA

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 17:00:39 +1200 (NZST)
From: adou01@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Andrew Richard  Doull)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 287
Message-ID: <199505170500.RAA25672@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>

[Brendon O'Donovan submitted this interesting design.]
> 
> 'David' class Heavy Battle Dress
> Mass: 403.2kg
> Price: Cr 209,920
> Stat mods: -3AGL, -2INIT
> Armour Value: 5
> Endurance: 2hrs continuous
> Features:
> WSV Helmet Suite
> Chameleon IR supression
> 30km (short) radio,
> 0.16Mj Meson Rifle, 15 EPG cartridges
> 3km Beam pointer for above
> 
> The meson rifle is a very small (1m tunnel length) shoulder mounted meson
gun. 
> Even this length gives it an effective range of 1000km!
> 
> Weapon      ROF      DamVal      Mag     Range
> Meson Rifle 1        2-2-2-2     15      3000m
> 
> This probably would have little effect on vehicles, but the effect on the
crew 
> inside would probably be more significant. Does anyone have any ideas as to
what 
> sort of effect this might have on personnel? Should the number of damage
dice be 
> greater than the damage value (as for lasers)? I can't find any references
to 
> meson guns being used in versions this small and there may be a good
reason, but 
> the possibility of an Intrepid Grav Tank being neutralised by a sniper
seems 
> interesting.
> 
> I'm not completely sure if this would work at all. I've no idea what the
recoil 
> would be like, whether there'd be a need for radiation shielding, etc.
>
This problem was raised earlier in the gdw-beta list server, and the
recommend-
ation was to use a multiplier to weapon size equal to the difference between
light and heavy focal array lasers.
This does not make portable meson guns much less powerful, but the argument
died
down when someone clarified that all meson weapons required beam pointers.
Your
design seems to have raised this problem again.

While the discussion is on battledress, I would like to point out my
battledress
designs kick butt over anything that GDW has published.  Why?  I install fuel
cells rather than batteries, which have between 1/3 and 1/10 the listed mass
of
the batteries used in the battledress designs in FFS.  The extra space
savings
I use to install stealth or EMM, extra weapons, cybernetics (Yes, from
chapter
12), and other equipment, inluding tool kits.  This gives a much wider
variety
of design possibilities and lets me beef up the armour by a factor of 3 or 4.
Oh, and because fuel cells generate heaps of excess power because of their
minimum volume, they are ideal for installing DEI lasers, gauss weapons, and
in
this case meson guns. (Which I had not previously thought of).
 
A.D.Venturer (aka Andrew Doull).

 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 05:34:51 GMT
From: "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Meson rifles
Message-ID: <14@odonovan.demon.co.uk>

In your message dated Tuesday 16, May 1995 you wrote :
>      >>The meson rifle is a very small (1m tunnel length) shoulder mounted 
>      meson gun. 
<snip>
>      Did you use FUSION, FIRE & STEEL to design it?
>      
>      --Chris
> 
Yes.
 Here are the details:
Discharge energy: 0.16Mj
Input energy: 0.8Mj
Tunnel Length:1m
Effective Tunnel length:1m
Volume: 0.0016m3
Mass: 0.0012t
Tunnel Price:0.00016Mcr
HPG:0.08t 0.00044Mcr
Effective range:1000km
Intensity all all ranges(limited by beam pointer):0.16
DV at all ranges:2

Although this is a ffs design, it is by no means a conventional use of the 
design sequence, it's more an exercise in 'What if?', which is why I'm 
interested to hear people's opinions about it. There are certain unaddressed 
questions in scaling between starship sized weapons and small arms, such as 
recoil, effectiveness of a beam pointer, and damage scaling. I cannot see why

lasers should be unique in being more damaging to personnel than vehicles,
after 
all, the average rifle only delivers a few thousand joules of energy and is 
still apparently more damaging than this weapon. 
 
Even if the damage isn't increased, the distraction to the pilot of a vehicle

flying at low level could still prove effective.
-- 
Brendan O'Donovan


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 18:32:46 -1600
From: pd82495@wapol.gov.au (Michael Bailey)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Military Generation / Path of Tears
Message-ID: <9505171032.AA10863@phq1002.wapol.gov.au>

On the whole, I quite like the system presented in 'Path of Tears' to
determine the size of military forces for a world/nation.  However, I have
one modification that I'd like to seek comment on:

As technological sophistication increases, armed forces tend to become more
and more expensive to equip, train, maintain and wage war with.  Given the
complexity of the equipment that he operates, the average soldier today
would, to paraphrase Heinlein, rate a master in most other trades...well
maybe not quite, but it's getting there.

So, as an army/navy/air force becomes more advanced, it tends to get smaller
(after all, there's only so many defense credits to go around).  

As an example, in the First World War, the Australian Infanty Force was able
to send (very rough half-remembered guess) 12-14 divisions to the
battlefields of the Dardanelles and France.  The AIF was (near the end of
the war), organised as a seperate field army under the Imperial Supreme
Command.  In the Second World War, we fielded a smaller number (I think it
was 11 divisions - including the home defense units), of which only four or
five divisions were trained and equipped for combat (they fought well...but
that's another story).  Today, the Australian Army could barely scrape
together a division...including Army Reserve and Ready Reserve troops.

Similarly, I read somewhere that the US Army fielded 89 divisions in
WWII...I don't know how many it fields now, but I'd be surprised if it were
more than a dozen.  Then there were the massive combats on the Eastern Front
- Germany invaded the USSR with 150 divisions....who could afford to equip
that many soldiers with todays weaponry?

Anyway, my idea is to take the final manpower figures produced by the Path
of Tears system, and multiply them by a Tech Level modifier as follows:

TL      Mod.
--      ----

0-2     x2.0
3       x1.0
4       x0.8
5       x0.6
6       x0.5
7       x0.4
8       x0.3
9-10    x0.25
11+     x0.2

These are 'top of the head' figures....and don't take into account
governments that may choose to equip reserve or militia units below their
current tech level.  At TL 11 and beyond, the rapidly falling cost of power
generation offsets the increased cost of the equipment itself, leading to a
'levelling out'.  Any comments/suggestions welcome.
Michael Bailey (pd82495@wapol.gov.au)

"...you mad-dog, shaven head, bottle boy freaks..."
                                      Marillion, "Berlin"



------------------------------

Date: 17 May 1995 09:03:43 -0500
From: "KMCCARTHY" <KMCCARTHY@QMGATE.OSC.HQ.NASA.GOV>
To: "New TML Broadcast" <traveller@MPGN.COM>, macrocosm@wri.com
Subject: DC-X First New Flight Succe
Message-ID: <n1411421013.50724@QMGATE.OSC.HQ.NASA.GOV>

                       Subject:                               Time:8:54 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          DC-X First New Flight Successful       Date:5/17/95

FYI

The McDonnel Douglas built Delta Clipper Experimental Vehicle successfully
completed a 123.6 second flight yesterday above White Sands Missle Range in
New Mexico.  Flying at a constant angle, the prototype reached an altitue of
1340m and traveled a lateral distance of 350m.  It landed vertically at its
landing site 107m from its launch site.  Three additional test flights are
planned including high angle of attack manuevers with sweeps of up to 180
degrees.

The REAL space age is approaching!!

Try building that at TL 8 in Traveller's Fire Fusion and Steel!!!!

Kevin 


------------------------------

Date: 	Wed, 17 May 1995 11:09:28 -0400
From: "C. Harald Koch" <harald@enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Gravity Fatigue.. 
Message-ID: <95May17.110940edt.606837@enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca>


>  Notes on how Gravity weakens characters, depending on homeworld

2300AD has a different scheme; strength is reduced in higher-G environments,
but dexterity is reduced in *lower* G environments. Apparently, people get
clumsier in lower gravity...

[ This is from memory; apologies for errors ]

2300AD uses 4 ranges: zero-G, low-G, earth-normal, and high-G. The base
strength/dexterity of your character (the ones calculate/roll) are entered
under the column representing your birth environment. Then, there's a chart
that raises/lowers the values for the other gravities:

Strength Modifiers:            Dexterity Modifiers:
          current gravity                current gravity
birthG   zero low  norm high   birthG   zero low  norm high
============================   ============================
zero       0   -1   -2   -4    zero       0   +1   +2   +4
low       +1    0   -1   -2    low       -1    0   +1   +2
normal    +2   +1    0   -1    normal    -2   -1    0   +1
high      +4   +2   +1    0    high      -4   -2   -1    0

IMHO, High gravity shouldn't affect any other attributes. A character
spending alot of time in high relative gravity should have to make regular
endurance checks (Their endurance isn't reduced, it's just used).
Intelligence, Wisdom, Education, etc. have no relation whatsover to current
gravitational stresses, and shouldn't be affected.

-- 
C. Harald Koch            | University of Toronto Computing & Communications
harald@canet.ca           | Network & Operations Services
+1 416 978 0992 (voice)   | External Network Facilities Managment
+1 416 978 6620 (fax)     | 4 Bancroft Ave., Rm 101, Toronto, ON M5S 1C1

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 13:38:57 -0700
From: Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Solomani Rim?
Message-ID: <fba5f3e0@MailXFER.DMCWAVE.COM>

     Does anyone have official or semi-official copies of Solomani Rim 
     statistics for 1200+?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 15:29:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Bindas <jbindas@u.washington.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Military Generation / Path of Tears
Message-ID:
<Pine.A32.3.91j.950517152700.103180B-100000@homer19.u.washington.edu>



On Wed, 17 May 1995, Michael Bailey wrote:

> On the whole, I quite like the system presented in 'Path of Tears' to
> determine the size of military forces for a world/nation.  However, I have
> one modification that I'd like to seek comment on:
> 
> As technological sophistication increases, armed forces tend to become more
> and more expensive to equip, train, maintain and wage war with.  Given the
> complexity of the equipment that he operates, the average soldier today
> would, to paraphrase Heinlein, rate a master in most other trades...well
> maybe not quite, but it's getting there.
> 
> So, as an army/navy/air force becomes more advanced, it tends to get
smaller
> (after all, there's only so many defense credits to go around).  
> 
> As an example, in the First World War, the Australian Infanty Force was
able
> to send (very rough half-remembered guess) 12-14 divisions to the
> battlefields of the Dardanelles and France.  The AIF was (near the end of
> the war), organised as a seperate field army under the Imperial Supreme
> Command.  In the Second World War, we fielded a smaller number (I think it
> was 11 divisions - including the home defense units), of which only four or
> five divisions were trained and equipped for combat (they fought well...but
> that's another story).  Today, the Australian Army could barely scrape
> together a division...including Army Reserve and Ready Reserve troops.
> 
> Similarly, I read somewhere that the US Army fielded 89 divisions in
> WWII...I don't know how many it fields now, but I'd be surprised if it were
> more than a dozen.  Then there were the massive combats on the Eastern
Front
> - Germany invaded the USSR with 150 divisions....who could afford to equip
> that many soldiers with todays weaponry?

One minor point, you are comparing a peacetime situation (today) to a war
situation (WWII).  Just before WWII, the US Army was 150,000 men.  During
WWII the US Army was 8,000,000 strong (although about 50% of those men
were in non-combat positions, ie supply).  And today the US Army has
around 550,000 men. 

> 
> Anyway, my idea is to take the final manpower figures produced by the Path
> of Tears system, and multiply them by a Tech Level modifier as follows:
> 
> TL      Mod.
> --      ----
> 
> 0-2     x2.0
> 3       x1.0
> 4       x0.8
> 5       x0.6
> 6       x0.5
> 7       x0.4
> 8       x0.3
> 9-10    x0.25
> 11+     x0.2
> 
> These are 'top of the head' figures....and don't take into account
> governments that may choose to equip reserve or militia units below their
> current tech level.  At TL 11 and beyond, the rapidly falling cost of power
> generation offsets the increased cost of the equipment itself, leading to a
> 'levelling out'.  Any comments/suggestions welcome.
> Michael Bailey (pd82495@wapol.gov.au)
> 
> "...you mad-dog, shaven head, bottle boy freaks..."
>                                       Marillion, "Berlin"
> 
> 
> 
I like your idea, but I think the modifiers shouldn't be so drastic.
Perhapse starting with 1 or 1.5  and finishing with .5

John "I don't need a sig" Bindas

------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 288
***************************


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